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Thursday, 7 February 2013

Lee Yi Shyan and Lee Bee Wah, that's no way to compare Japan to S'pore

The White Paper has seen the PAPpies sent into a frenzy panic. Woody Goh has turned cheerleader, jumping high and somersaulting, looking like a grandfather in a schoolgirl's outfit, "jiayou"ing PM Lee. Hri Kumar has gone into Attack Dog Mode, baring his teeth at WP. And now we have Lee Yi Shyan trying to act like rationale thinker comparing Japan to Singapore, but does it way out of context.

Ageing Japan offers lesson on consequences of keeping out immigrants: Yi Shyan

lderly people resting on a bench in Tokyo. Japan, the world's fastest-ageing country, has to deal with economic recession, higher taxes and fewer job opportunities, a price for closing its doors to immigration, warned Ms Lee Bee Wah (Nee Soon GRC). -- PHOTO: AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE

JAPAN’S present struggles illustrate the consequences of a silver tsunami, and provide Singapore with a glimpse of future problems, said Mr Lee Yi Shyan, Senior Minister of State for Trade and Industry as well as National Development.

With Ms Lee Bee Wah (Nee Soon GRC), Mr Lee yesterday warned of the need for Singapore to avoid a similar fate.

With economic recession, higher taxes and fewer job opportunities, Japan – the world’s fastest-ageing country – is paying the price for closing its doors to immigration, said Ms Lee.

Full republished article can be found in this link.

Yi Shyan picks out one factor, ie Japan's closing its doors to immigration as the cause of Japan's silver tsunami woes today. He misses the forest for the trees. That's no way to compare. That's short-sighted and micro thinking. The way to compare is to take a macro view.

Here's the macro view Yi Shyan totally missed. Singapore had (and still has) many more things common to Japan that has led us to this sad state. He shouldn't pick out on the closed door immigration policy.


1. Both Japan and Singapore copied the West -

Both countries simply imitated America and Europe. In the last century, when the West economy boomed due to high spending in consumer products, Japan copied their technology, and we too set up factories in Singapore to manufacture these consumer products. When the West moved into the finance sector and boomed again, we too tried to set up financial hubs. When the West moved to R&D, we tried to do the same too.

So of course now when the West economy slides, we (both Japan and Singapore) who have been mimicking them since last century, will also follow the slide. We have been copying them, remember? Monkey see, monkey do. Monkey sees monkey falls into drain, monkey follows other monkey and falls into drain too.


2. Both Japan and Singapore were insular and arrogant -

In spite of our success imitating the West, both Japan and Singapore were very strangely insular. We thought we were "the best" and hence cut off any ideas that are not from within ourselves. Japan was so arrogant, it thought that whatever America and Germany (the two West nations with most advanced R&D at that time) could do, it could do better.

As for Singapore, it felt so bigheaded, it made fun of Malaysia's economy even though their Proton producing cars made an impact in the world market. Not to mention Malaysia's Petronas that was helping boost the economy. Or for that matter, their world renowned golf courses and Sepang circuit, which were (and still are) fit to hold world events like world golf tournaments and F1, MotoGP etc.

Both Japan and Singapore pooh-poohed their neighbour's strong economy. Note the irony how Singapore now tries to play catch up with Malaysia's world sporting events, including F1.

We were insular. We didn't want to learn from our neighbours. We thought we were better than them. We were (maybe still are) arrogant.


3. Both countries depended too heavily on US -

Who was Japan's biggest importer of Japanese products in the last century? The US. Who was Singapore's biggest customer for our exports? The US. As if there are no other nations that were important to Japan or Singapore.

So of course when the biggest customer gets sick and can spend no more, both Japan and Singapore would also fall sick, no?


4. Both countries were antagonistic towards their neighbours, unable to shake the ghost of the past -

For more than half a century or so, both Japan and Singapore had been very highly antagonistic towards their neighbours. Perhaps still antagonistic till today. Japan is so nationalistic it still feels the pangs of WW2. Somehow they feel a need to visit their war dead which includes their war criminals. Of course this angers China and South Korea.

In Singapore, the past is also regurgitated ad nauseam, hoping to fire nationalism. Singapore keeps repeating about the race riots and Confrontation. Yeah, even we now know that these two incidents have nothing to do with "a sea of Malays" from the North and South out to get us, the Singapore govt plays this old broken record that we have enemies.

In both cases for Japan and Singapore, are we not stuck in the past and in being so, have we not agitated our neighbours?


5. Paying the price of antagonizing neighbours -

For Japan, they are paying the price of antagonizing its neighbours today. China is the fastest booming economy in the world today. Who does China look towards to do business with today? The Arabs and West Asians. China has struck deal after deal with the oil rich and mineral rich nations of the Mid East and West Asia. Japan is left in the backseat.

Closer to home, our neighbours are booming. With Johor's fast growing Iskandar project taking shape, Singapore is now only receiving the crumbs. Who are the biggest foreign investors in the Iskandar project now? The oil rich Arabs. Why was not Singapore, just so close by with all the infrastructure, same culture and strong history of managing conglomerates, given the first bite?

Perhaps both Japan and Singapore laughed and scoffed at their neighbours too much in the last century. So who's to blame the neighbours for giving us the shrug now?


Conclusion -

Lee Yi Shyan mentioned that the closed door policy to immigrants is the cause of the silver tsunami in Japan today. That's missing the forest for the trees. Come to think of it, he wasn't even looking at the trees. He was looking at just one leaf.

There are a host of reasons for Japan's woes today. Not least of all their insular inward looking thought that they are the best, while others are inferior to them. Singapore was just like them in the last century too. That's the cause of Japan's and our slide in the economy today. The closed door to immigration is just one small speck.

24 comments:

Anonymous said...

Good argument. I agree with your rationale.

Anonymous said...

"...even though their Proton producing cars made an impact in the world market."

Waaah...Bang Beruang, you've certainly outdone yourself here again!!!

PROTON you say!?!?!? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

No kidding, eh? But Alamak, how can you expect to be taken seriously when you keep slipping in these brilliant jokes la...you deserve to be made a Datuk at least, for your lofty contributions to the art of irony...that is if you haven't purchased one back in your motherland already. ;p

Anonymous said...

You can expect dr troll to spam this thread.

Barrie said...

Anon (11.50am), he already has. He made that spam post b4 yours and you made yours before I published his. So you didn’t know about it yet.

The troll is still living in the last century in spite of me highlighting the issue. He still thinks that Proton is a failure, a mockery, a dud - just like what some Sinkies thought about our neighbours then.

Here’s some news that the troll isn’t aware about Proton’s performance as a company worldwide.

Proton may drive ASEAN + CHINA CAR

PROTON LAUNCHES NEW GLOBAL CAR PREVÉ


The doc has not updated himself since he last was a student in the 1980s. His long stay in Oz land in the 1990s kept him away about local issues then, and he has since not kept up with local issues till today, even after he got his PhD about a decade ago or so.

That explains his many spam and troll posts which are so last centuryish.

Yet to see just one intellectual post from you, doc.

The said...

/// As for Singapore, it felt so bigheaded, it made fun of Malaysia's economy even though their Proton producing cars made an impact in the world market. ///

Bearie, you could have not picked a worse example of Malaysia's economic "success". The Proton is a bad example of Malaysia's import substitution. All Malaysian consumers suffer because of the high protective taxes imposed on imported cars. The so-called limited impact in the world market is achieved by Malaysians subsidizing even more. The cars sold in Europe and UK are lower than cost price and effectively subsidized by Malaysian tax payers.

Tens of billions of ringgits have been squandered on this project alone. There is hardly any technology transfer - the heart of the product - the engine is imported from Japan.

Barrie said...

IMO, I think you couldn’t have picked a worse example by picking out on Proton. The company was doing very, very well until it was mismanaged later. When the Company was flying high, many Sinkies just shut up, only to say “There you are! They failed!”, when the losses came in thick and fast.

But where were the praises for the spectacular performances earlier? For that matter, what about Msia’s other industries like oil and gas, tourism, sporting events, even its ports, some of which has outstripped Singapore?

Stop cherry picking about Proton’s losses when they had much success earlier. It only confirms what I said that some Sinkies are still living in last century’s glory days where Sinkie was doing much better than its neighbours and we looked down on them.

It is time we admit we are now lagging behind.

Anonymous said...

http://www.forbes.com/sites/eamonnfingleton/2013/02/06/paul-krugman-says-it-again-japans-stagnation-is-a-myth/

Anonymous said...

Hahaha, Bro Beruang doesn't even have the balls to admit his less-than-sound reasoning and all he does is insisting that his words sum up the entire golden truth, hahahahahaha!!! Picking on Proton, you say? But YOU are the one who made such a meal of the supposed roaring success that you claim Proton to be! Oh, do you happen you one of those proteges of Dr Mat, the patron saint of the company? Or is there something else you ain't letting on? Hey, even many of YOUR fellow Malaysians agree that the company's product is less than pedestrian (which explains its dwindling market share in a domestic market that they're so desperately dependent on), and that the precious subsidies that the firm receives in one form or another are anti-competitive, subject to abuse and only capable of breeding inefficiencies. What is there in Proton, seriously, other than a basket case? Even VW decided there wasn't much of a business case acquiring Proton in the end. Speaks volumes, doesn't it?

The said...

Proton, from Day 1, had NEVER done well. It managed to sell many cars because Mahathir put up punitive taxes on all competitors. Net, net, the country loses tens of billions. Even when it was well managed, the country is losing money. Proton made profits by been subsidised by tax payers. Overseas sales are below Malaysian costs. Is robbing Peter to pay Paul considered success? If this is the case, you are right.

Barrie said...

Dr Troll posted:
>> Picking on Proton, you say? But YOU are the one who made such a meal of the supposed roaring success that you claim Proton to be!
>>

I put up many examples of our neighbour’s success. YOU picked out only one - Proton - and that too you highlighted its down years and ignored the successful years. Pls post intelligently. Yet to see one intellectual post from you.

Proton WAS a success which some Sinkies who hv been looking down on Msians could not swallow. So of course when the dirt came up, these Sinkies celebrate as if that’s the end of Msia.

But then again, many of our Temasek ventures went bust too, didn’t it? And the losses is far worse than Msia’s. Wanna say Spore was never a success then?

Your posts prove my point about the insular mentality and arrogance of Sinkies of last century, doesn’t it? Looking down on neighbours and believing that you are superior to them. Never mind you ignored that Spore has the same mismanagement in our foreign investments with far worse losses!

====

>>http://www.forbes.com/sites/eamonnfingleton/2013/02/06/paul-krugman-says-it-again-japans-stagnation-is-a-myth/
>>

Actually that article reinforces my point further. Firstly, note that the article is comparing US to Japan. Of course Jap looks good. When you compare and E grader to an F, that is. :)

Secondly, note that all the explanation given to support the idea Jap is not doing too bad is the EXACT SAME explanation given by PAP. Impressive national figures and so on. But completely ignores the real internal problem - high inflation, cost of doing business, cost of living, lack of jobs etc.

Last century, every consumer must have a Jap product. Be it cars, bikes, electronics, whatever. This century there are cheaper products from other parts of Asia. Consumers know where the real value for money is.

Japan is not growing today. Neither is Singapore. Both were insular and arrogant and both believed others (especially their neighbours) were too backward to catch up, let alone overtake.

Both Japan and Spore are now paying the price.

Anonymous said...

I'm curios bro, how old are you?

Anonymous said...

"...high inflation, cost of doing business..."

the japanese have had to cope with protracted DEflation for years. if you don't know what you're talking about (and it's quite blatantly obvious, you DON'T), it might be better to just...you know... ... ...

Barrie said...

I am in my early 50s. Some people have asked me how then I know about the pre 1960s, pre-merger etc when I didn’t experience that. I know about it bcos I did my research.

==

>>"...high inflation, cost of doing business..."
the japanese have had to cope with protracted DEflation for years. if you don't know what you're talking about (and it's quite blatantly obvious, you DON'T), it might be better to just...you know... ... ...
>>

Quoting me out of context so that you can troll? Where did I say Japan has high inflation, doc?

I quoted high inflation, cost of doing bz etc as example of what PAP LEFT OUT when it brings in nice national figures, as a comparison to the article on Japan which quoted its nice figures, but also excluded its own not so nice internal figures.

YOU, on the other hand, made a tall story that I said Japan is experiencing high inflation, misquote me, build a strawman, then whack that strawman.

Please post intelligently. Yet to see just one intellectual post from you, doc.

Anonymous said...

"I know about it bcos I did my research."

Hahaha, liberally quoting YOURSELF and making references to programmes on the History Channel (!!!???!!!) hardly counts as research, Abang!

While the RECENT spike in the rate of inflation is indeed worrying...and I don't think the Pappies have tried to LEAVE IT OUT by sweeping such data under the rug (since the debate even extends to the usually compliant MSM)...it is easily accounted for and is not exactly impacting the economy in a prolonged or catastrophic manner YET, especially vis-à-vis our competitors. as for the ease and costs of doing business, i think it's hard to argue with the figures. From taxation and credit to investor protection or labour, the Lion City has consistently ranked highly to those who count. Nonetheless, a crunch in labour supply and inflation-related issues (e.g. sky-high rents) do undoubtedly put a cautious dampener on prospects in the immediate horizon.

Perhaps Bang Beruang would like to elaborate a bit more specifically on his assertions and demonstrate how Singapore has slipped down the competitive scale as he charged, with particular respect to his motherland and Indonesia as well.

And yes, this...

"Yet to see just one intellectual post from you, doc."

Proves my point about your arcane mastery of the spoof. Are mirrors simply in short supply in Ipoh?

OW said...

You people are suffering from the Paradise Syndrome. See what the experts say on page two.

Guru Dave said...

To the anonymous guy who posted the maniac laugh, you seem very angry. Let me teach you how to relax. Just clear your mind and let it in. Aaaaah.... that feels shiok.

Barrie said...

Doc, I linked my past posts which in turn linked to authentic sources. Don’t try to build a case when there’s none. Like trying to say that I said Japan is having inflation. You lie a lot, don’t you, doc?

As for your claims that there’s no figures that our neighbours have caught up, am I not right you are still in the last century? There’s tons of news about our neighbours’ progress week in and out. And you claim you don’t know?

You are like asking for data and news to prove that America has invaded Afghanistan and Iraq, because you are still stuck in the last century, believing that America is still in Vietnam. Post intelligently, doc.

Doc posted:
>>"Yet to see just one intellectual post from you, doc."
Proves my point about your arcane mastery of the spoof. Are mirrors simply in short supply in Ipoh?
>>

Thanks for saying that to yourself for me, doc. :)

Anonymous said...

The troll's repeated reference to Barrie in Malay "beruang" and his repeated inference that Barrie is a Malaysian when in fact everyone knows Barrie is a Singaporean Chinese shows the troll's racist nature. Yongwah the troll has always been a racist since his uni days in USQ as far back 1990s.

Anonymous said...

Hahaha, Bang Beruang,

Has there been a shred of evidence to indicate that you are who you claim you are, eh (or who you assert that "I" am, for that matter)? Unlike you, I do take things on the web with a huge pinch of salt. So...awww...c'mon, puh-leaze...

And ermmm...I certainly don't pretend to hail from any part of that country up north... errrrrr...what about you, Abang? Hahahahahaha...Nice one! Really!! You TRULY are quite the joker, dude, whoever you are...



SELAMAT TAHUN BARU CINA!!!

Turtle said...

Does anyone know what this so called idiot DR looks like? I'm really curious to see what gundu looks like.

Barrie said...

Doc posted:
>>Has there been a shred of evidence to indicate that you are who you claim you are
>>

Stop lying doc. Where in the world have I claimed to be anybody here?


>>I do take things on the web with a huge pinch of salt. So...awww...c'mon, puh-leaze...
>>

The “things” you so pooh-pooh, which concerns the economy of our neighbours and all other points I put up about our merger and pre-merger, can be found in the main news, library etc.

Please post intelligently. Like I said, yet to see just one intellectual post from you, doc.

Anonymous said...

"(or who you assert that "I" am, for that matter"

You are the same troll from University of Southern Queensland who have been trolling in many forums and harassing female netizens.

Anonymous said...

//I do take things on the web with a huge pinch of salt.//

The spamming troll yongwahgoh is a hypocrite. He has been using the internet to dig up all the hate against Muslims and post that hate in hate sites as well as other sites for years. Now he dares to talk nonsense that he takes things on the web with a huge pinch of salt.

The said...

Well, Bearie, this one is from a Malaysian who knows what's he is talking about:

http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2013/02/15/22-questions-for-dr-m-again/#more-22276

/// 3. Proton. You went ahead with the national car project in 1983 despite a number of experts disagreeing with you, especially with respect to lack of economies of scale.

Why, especially when Proton’s profit over the last 28 years came out of vastly higher prices that the Malaysian public pays, resulting in considerable hardship, especially to the poorer people who could not afford cars?

More lately, Proton has been taken over by one of your close associates Syed Mokhtar Al-Bukhary’s DRB-Hicom. DRB-Hicom’s lack of expertise and economies of scale in car production promises continued high prices for Proton cars which no doubt you will support as Proton adviser. ///